November 29, 2024
Episode

AI and Music - Trapital Summit

AI and Music - Trapital Summit
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Sean T. Smith

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AI and Music

Today’s episode and memo is about AI, music, and the balance between innovation and regulation. At our summit, Warner Music Group’s chief digital officer Carletta Higginson, and MIDiA Research’s Tati Cirisano talked about all that and more.

You can listen to our talk here or read below for more on the startup tradeoff between asking for permission or forgiveness.

The concept for this talk at our summit came from a popular memo from May about the inevitable tension between startups and major labels. Here are a few highlights from it:

“If your company is built to shake up an industry, is it better to ask for permission or forgiveness?

Startups operating in music face additional scrutiny from the industry given music’s turbulent history with disruptive technology. No music executive wants to deal with another Napster. But Spotify and YouTube, two of the largest revenue contributors to recorded music, ruffled their fair share of feathers over the past twenty years. There's nuance in those relationships.

But “playing nice” and asking for permission isn’t straightforward either. I’ve talked to many startup founders in music who try to do things the right way. They sometimes get ignored because they’re too small. Other times, the major labels want so much control that it would hinder growth.

If you’re a venture-backed founder, what sounds more attractive? Do you do things the right way, build slowly, and hope that the industry’s blessing pays off in the long run? Or take money from VCs with opinions that conflict with the copyright owners, especially when those same VCs have a track record of billion-dollar exits?

…This isn’t advocacy for breaking the rules. Instead, it’s a lens inside reality. Until the incentives shift, this dynamic will likely continue.”

That’s life for many startups in the industry. But the reality for the rights holders is arguably just as nuanced.

Yes, some may ignore early-stage startups until there’s more traction, but it’s also understandable. Licensing deals take a lot of time and money. No label or publisher wants to go through tense negotiations with a startup that has limited runway and a questionable product. Reputation matters. Look at Triller. I’m sure the industry wished it had the time back it spent fighting those battles.

On our summit panel, Warner’s Carletta Higginson spoke from experience at all sides. She was a litigator during the peer-to-peer file-sharing era, worked at YouTube, and now leads digital for WMG.

Part of the challenge startups face when partnering with majors are the internal silos. The recording and publishing sides don’t always talk to each other, which leads to conversations that can feel duplicative for all sides. Higginson’s role integrates both which allows for more efficiency externally and internally.

Another crucial piece is how deals are structured. Higginson said it’s best to make deals that foster long-term growth for both sides instead of immediate financial gain.

She referenced Warner’s deal with YouTube’s Dream Track partnership, which allows fans to create 30-second generative AI song clips that use the voice of several well-known artists including Charli XCX, who is signed to WMG’s Atlantic Records. It’s a restrictive license that can grow if successful. It’s worth noting that YouTube already has a global licensing agreement with the majors, so it’s not the same as a young startup. But the approach would like lot be the same. Listen to the rest of the conversation with Higginson and Tati Cirisano here. We’ll share the rest of the conversations in the next few weeks!

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Dan Runcie
Founder of Trapital
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Read what the industry leaders read

Intersection of Hip-Hop + Business
Hip-hop mirrors the business world in a lot of ways. While I’ve always thought and known that, it’s great to see those ideas brought to life by someone so knowledgeable about both of those things. Huge fan of Trapital.
PPLS CHAMP
Perfect intersection of business and entertainment
Looking forward to future episodes of Trapital. I’ve been following the newsletters for awhile and always learn something new that’s relevant to hip hop and business. Great job getting the nuggets of info from Matthew Knowles on the 1st episode, can’t wait until the next one!
Cburns08
Phenomenal Podcast!
If you’re looking for a podcast with a wealth of info on the business of hip hop, then Trapital is your new home. Dan is an excellent host who has a myriad of of experienced guests to talk their role in the business of hip hop. Check it out!
RoyalSkegee
The best music business podcast
If you work in — or have an interest in — the music business, Trapital is a must.
Samu Rast
Subject Matter Expert on the Biz of Hip Hop
A good friend of mine put me on this podcast and it took me some time to tap in, but once I did, I couldn’t stop listening! Dan has a talent for pulling out the narratives between lines, connecting it to the culture and then making it make sense. I’m a loyal subscriber and am thankful for the podcast!
Zealous Advocate
Dan is such a great interviewer!
I am a real estate investor and came across this podcast after a recommendation from a friend who shares my loves for both hip hop and business. Often, those two interests have such polar opposite “voices” - but Dan’s podcast brings those two together for me. The result is magical. Great guests, too!
Gabriel Blue
Golden Age Goodness
As a guy who came up in NYC during the late 90s / early 2000s rap scene, I appreciate the history revisited by Dan, who obviously has an authentic and unique perspective on the culture. But he’s not only a hip hop historian; he’s also a visionary of art, technology and culture who curates other trend setters from across the globe. Salute!
Mrkamal
One of my fave podcasts hands down
I love Dan’s ability to bring diverse and timely perspectives to the show while asking deeply insightful questions that engage the audience on so many interesting levels. I’ve learned so much in just a short period of listening. Excited for what Dan has in store for the show in the future!
Greg0188
Great podcast! Keep it up!
I stumbled upon this podcast by learning about Dan / Trapital via LinkedIn. I listen to A LOT of podcasts and I decided to give it a listen. First, Dan has a calm and authentic demeanor, which are great qualities. When he’s talking to his guests it’s very conversational and easy flowing. I’m a former music industry vet so the topics are right up my alley.
Phil Stolaronek

Read what the industry leaders read

Hip-hop mirrors the business world in a lot of ways. While I’ve always thought and known that, it’s great to see those ideas brought to life by someone so knowledgeable about both of those things. Huge fan of Trapital.
PPLS CHAMP
Looking forward to future episodes of Trapital. I’ve been following the newsletters for awhile and always learn something new that’s relevant to hip hop and business. Great job getting the nuggets of info from Matthew Knowles on the 1st episode, can’t wait until the next one!
Cburns08
If you’re looking for a podcast with a wealth of info on the business of hip hop, then Trapital is your new home. Dan is an excellent host who has a myriad of of experienced guests to talk their role in the business of hip hop. Check it out!
RoyalSkegee
If you work in — or have an interest in — the music business, Trapital is a must.
Samu Rast
A good friend of mine put me on this podcast and it took me some time to tap in, but once I did, I couldn’t stop listening! Dan has a talent for pulling out the narratives between lines, connecting it to the culture and then making it make sense. I’m a loyal subscriber and am thankful for the podcast!
Zealous Advocate
I am a real estate investor and came across this podcast after a recommendation from a friend who shares my loves for both hip hop and business. Often, those two interests have such polar opposite “voices” - but Dan’s podcast brings those two together for me. The result is magical. Great guests, too!
Gabriel Blue
As a guy who came up in NYC during the late 90s / early 2000s rap scene, I appreciate the history revisited by Dan, who obviously has an authentic and unique perspective on the culture. But he’s not only a hip hop historian; he’s also a visionary of art, technology and culture who curates other trend setters from across the globe. Salute!
Mrkamal
I love Dan’s ability to bring diverse and timely perspectives to the show while asking deeply insightful questions that engage the audience on so many interesting levels. I’ve learned so much in just a short period of listening. Excited for what Dan has in store for the show in the future!
Greg0188
I stumbled upon this podcast by learning about Dan / Trapital via LinkedIn. I listen to A LOT of podcasts and I decided to give it a listen. First, Dan has a calm and authentic demeanor, which are great qualities. When he’s talking to his guests it’s very conversational and easy flowing. I’m a former music industry vet so the topics are right up my alley.
Phil Stolaronek
Dan sitting at a table with others, smiling and engaged in a discussion, with glasses and a water pitcher on the table.

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