July 15, 2025
Episode

Algorithms vs. Curators: YouTube’s Role in Breaking Through The Noise

Algorithms vs. Curators: YouTube’s Role in Breaking Through The Noise
Image credit:
Various sources. For specific credits, please contact us.
Via Shutterstock

Listen to

Today’s episode, Tuma Basa, YouTube’s director of Black Music, returns to the show to discuss the latest at YouTube, the role of curators in an algorithmically-driven world, and more.

You can listen here or read below for a few highlights from our conversation.

The "mainstream to me" concept extends to the conversation I had with Tuma, YouTube's Director of Music Culture. His career in entertainment was steeped in curation. At BET, MTV, and the early days of Spotify's RapCaviar, Tuma's ears and eyes informed what the rest of us vibed with. The algorithms weren't as powerful. The taste of a key decision-maker reigned supreme, especially in music.

Technically, even back then, there was an element of "mainstream to me," since a VH1 fan may not have watched BET's 106 & Park, or an Apple Music listener wasn't as influenced by the RapCaviar playlist. But the "me" wasn't as personalized as it is today.

At YouTube, Tuma's role still involves curation, but it's evolved for today. The artists that he and his team at YouTube choose to support are selected based on a likely mix of organic traction and Tuma and his team's taste. This is true for most platforms with a large audience.

Yet this fragmentation makes it paradoxically harder than ever to break through, despite the "mainstream to me" dynamic. With audiences scattered across countless personalized feeds, achieving true cultural moments becomes more difficult.

But here are a few platforms that, if used well, can punch slightly above the rest:

• NPR Tiny Desk. As we've discussed, a strong and memorable performance here can take an emerging artist to new heights, like Chappell Roan, or an established act to renewed fandom, like Usher.

• Interviews with drama-filled quotes. We may tell ourselves we're above celebrity drama, but most of us aren't. We attach ourselves to the drama between celebrities and moguls. For instance, Pusha T is a brilliant and methodical storyteller, whether it's in an interview or on a track. On the promo run for Clipse's latest album, he's spoken extensively about his issues with both Kanye West and Travis Scott. I believe that he believes every word, but he's also aware of the reach that the interviews will have if he speaks on both artists, which helps the reach of his music.

• Freestyle on a radio appearance. Shows like Power 106's LA Leakers are known for some of the most memorable freestyles, like J Cole, The Game, and Symba. Similar to Tiny Desk, the appeal is a stripped-down version of the music. There's no hiding behind autotune, filters, or other effects.

What other platforms do you think give artists the best shot at breaking through today?

Hope you listen to the full episode, Tuma and I also discussed the role of YouTube Shorts, the growing influence of AI, and which genres of music may be the next to have their big moment.

Listen here:​​ Spotify​​ | ​​Apple Podcasts​​ | Overcast

Chartmetric Stat of the Week - Clipse in the streaming era

Clipse’s last album before 2025’s Let God Sort Em Out was 2009’s Till The Casket Drops, so this is their first true release of the streaming era. Both Pusha T and Malice’s names are on all the tracks, which likely helps capture searches for people typing in one brother’s name to find the album. Clipse’s Spotify monthly listeners have grown from around 500k in April to over 3 million today.

Dan smiling at the camera against a dark background, wearing a blue shirt."
Dan Runcie
Founder of Trapital
Like this memo? Share it!
Subscribe to Trapital

“You tell the true stories. Not just the end product, but how you get to the end product. Your point of view on it is dope.”

Steve Stoute
CEO, UnitedMasters and Translation

"The stuff that Trapital puts out is fantastic. Really interesting insights into the industry, artists trends, and market trends."

Mike Weissman
Former CEO, SoundCloud

Read what the industry leaders read

Intersection of Hip-Hop + Business
Hip-hop mirrors the business world in a lot of ways. While I’ve always thought and known that, it’s great to see those ideas brought to life by someone so knowledgeable about both of those things. Huge fan of Trapital.
PPLS CHAMP
Perfect intersection of business and entertainment
Looking forward to future episodes of Trapital. I’ve been following the newsletters for awhile and always learn something new that’s relevant to hip hop and business. Great job getting the nuggets of info from Matthew Knowles on the 1st episode, can’t wait until the next one!
Cburns08
Phenomenal Podcast!
If you’re looking for a podcast with a wealth of info on the business of hip hop, then Trapital is your new home. Dan is an excellent host who has a myriad of of experienced guests to talk their role in the business of hip hop. Check it out!
RoyalSkegee
The best music business podcast
If you work in — or have an interest in — the music business, Trapital is a must.
Samu Rast
Subject Matter Expert on the Biz of Hip Hop
A good friend of mine put me on this podcast and it took me some time to tap in, but once I did, I couldn’t stop listening! Dan has a talent for pulling out the narratives between lines, connecting it to the culture and then making it make sense. I’m a loyal subscriber and am thankful for the podcast!
Zealous Advocate
Dan is such a great interviewer!
I am a real estate investor and came across this podcast after a recommendation from a friend who shares my loves for both hip hop and business. Often, those two interests have such polar opposite “voices” - but Dan’s podcast brings those two together for me. The result is magical. Great guests, too!
Gabriel Blue
Golden Age Goodness
As a guy who came up in NYC during the late 90s / early 2000s rap scene, I appreciate the history revisited by Dan, who obviously has an authentic and unique perspective on the culture. But he’s not only a hip hop historian; he’s also a visionary of art, technology and culture who curates other trend setters from across the globe. Salute!
Mrkamal
One of my fave podcasts hands down
I love Dan’s ability to bring diverse and timely perspectives to the show while asking deeply insightful questions that engage the audience on so many interesting levels. I’ve learned so much in just a short period of listening. Excited for what Dan has in store for the show in the future!
Greg0188
Great podcast! Keep it up!
I stumbled upon this podcast by learning about Dan / Trapital via LinkedIn. I listen to A LOT of podcasts and I decided to give it a listen. First, Dan has a calm and authentic demeanor, which are great qualities. When he’s talking to his guests it’s very conversational and easy flowing. I’m a former music industry vet so the topics are right up my alley.
Phil Stolaronek

Read what the industry leaders read

Hip-hop mirrors the business world in a lot of ways. While I’ve always thought and known that, it’s great to see those ideas brought to life by someone so knowledgeable about both of those things. Huge fan of Trapital.
PPLS CHAMP
Looking forward to future episodes of Trapital. I’ve been following the newsletters for awhile and always learn something new that’s relevant to hip hop and business. Great job getting the nuggets of info from Matthew Knowles on the 1st episode, can’t wait until the next one!
Cburns08
If you’re looking for a podcast with a wealth of info on the business of hip hop, then Trapital is your new home. Dan is an excellent host who has a myriad of of experienced guests to talk their role in the business of hip hop. Check it out!
RoyalSkegee
If you work in — or have an interest in — the music business, Trapital is a must.
Samu Rast
A good friend of mine put me on this podcast and it took me some time to tap in, but once I did, I couldn’t stop listening! Dan has a talent for pulling out the narratives between lines, connecting it to the culture and then making it make sense. I’m a loyal subscriber and am thankful for the podcast!
Zealous Advocate
I am a real estate investor and came across this podcast after a recommendation from a friend who shares my loves for both hip hop and business. Often, those two interests have such polar opposite “voices” - but Dan’s podcast brings those two together for me. The result is magical. Great guests, too!
Gabriel Blue
As a guy who came up in NYC during the late 90s / early 2000s rap scene, I appreciate the history revisited by Dan, who obviously has an authentic and unique perspective on the culture. But he’s not only a hip hop historian; he’s also a visionary of art, technology and culture who curates other trend setters from across the globe. Salute!
Mrkamal
I love Dan’s ability to bring diverse and timely perspectives to the show while asking deeply insightful questions that engage the audience on so many interesting levels. I’ve learned so much in just a short period of listening. Excited for what Dan has in store for the show in the future!
Greg0188
I stumbled upon this podcast by learning about Dan / Trapital via LinkedIn. I listen to A LOT of podcasts and I decided to give it a listen. First, Dan has a calm and authentic demeanor, which are great qualities. When he’s talking to his guests it’s very conversational and easy flowing. I’m a former music industry vet so the topics are right up my alley.
Phil Stolaronek
Dan sitting at a table with others, smiling and engaged in a discussion, with glasses and a water pitcher on the table.

Join readers who stay ahead of all the trends